This episode features Julie's conversation with Lisa Levinson. Lisa directs In Defense Of Animals Sustainable Activism Campaign, offering emotional and spiritual support for animal activists. Lisa and Julie will talk about their work and challenges as vegan and animal activists. Their views about our society and the changes they are leading to a different future for the animals and us.
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This is the second part of Lisa and Julie's conversation about veganism and animal activism. This is the second part of the interview with Lisa and Julie about veganism as a spiritual practice and animal activism. If you would like to listen to the first part, please listen to the last episode of the life foods podcast. Alright, let's get right to it. Please welcome Lisa and Julie again. I think
a lot of times when you kind of have traveled and you've gone around the world of being of eating meat and not eating meat and being a vegetarian and then being a vegan and then finally settling somewhere, I think if you do end up settling on being vegan, and then it's really hard to you do, it's really hard because you become so compassionate. I really find that eating whatever you eat really changes you at the cellular level. All and emotional level and compassionate level where you really start to, you know, feel differently. And you know you it's just it's a it's a hard thing to describe. It's something that you can feel, do you do you think that?
Yes, well actually I've had people come up to me because I also run a movement forum for discussion called vegan spirituality which explores veganism as a spiritual practice. And I've had people come up to me and tell me, wow, I became spiritual when I became vegan. They were not concerned about those issues before and then suddenly they became more heart based. Yeah. And also, another person that many, many of you may know already James asked me, he is an animal, advocate. He speaks widely around the world. He said that a lot of the The videos of cruelty in the slaughterhouses didn't affect him until he became vegan. After he became vegan, it's like his heart opened up from eating the plants instead of animals and because of that big shift, he was able to suddenly feel more when he observed those videos, it was very difficult for him afterwards. So I think that shows that there is a shift when you eat this way. And of course and the yogic traditions, they have the the sattvic diet which is intended for those who are practicing spirituality and they that diet is a basically vegetarian.
Yes, yeah. I mean, you know, with the the Vedic diets and stuff, and those times they did eat dairy but their dairy was coming from a completely different source than what are dairy comes from today. So it's that's really extremely important to understand. That, you know, their dairies were coming from their cows that lived in their house, you know, lived in their backyard almost. So yeah, it's really, really interesting. And, you know the fact you know that I have a nine year old daughter and she's a vegetarian and I totally see the difference, you know, in children that are in that aren't. And, um, you know, and I also see the fact that children gravitate, you know, when they're little kids so, you know, I'll tell you a story that we lived in. We lived in this one area, and then we had a neighbor who their child was a year older than Obama, when Obama was about one years older, you know, so their child was eating solid food and stuff like that. So he was being introduced to eating food. And when you know, there are people I would feed the me feed the child meat. This child did not want to eat any. And the parents were meat eaters. So they kept on introducing the child, you know, to eat meat over and over and over and over again. And the child was extremely he, the child did not want to eat any meat. So eventually I mean, I don't know we moved away and I don't know what exactly happened with the child, but that kind of goes to show that you know, as a child, if you are exposed to many different types of diets, which most people are not, that truly only then you can choose, and truly only then you can say that okay, I I chose my own diet. Right. And I believe that as clean as children are, that they you know, they might choose vegetables over me
Yeah, yeah, I think that's often the case for many children when they're, especially if they're not exposed to a lot of processed food and their their taste buds are kind of all natural. Like, a piece of fruit, they might enjoy that the, the vegetables,
Well, I can tell you one thing when, you know my daughter brings her friends to our house, they eat
they eat my lentils and my bread, they're, you know, they make plenty of
plenty of comments and, you know, lots of good comments. So I love this and you know, love that, you know, it's interesting, another story that I you know, want to share, because you told me that you were working at a you know, you were working with a farm and living at a farm. You know, we, as you know that I've gone back and forth from eating me to not eating me too. You know, so we used to go to this farm, local farm to get eggs. And so I just happened to start talking with the, you know, with one of the people there the farmers there and, and I was just like wow, you know, it's quite interesting that I don't know where the thought came from but I was just telling him that it's quite interesting that, you know, these hens let you guys just grab their eggs and go and you know that they never that it doesn't bother the hens that you're taking their eggs because, you know you go in there and take their eggs and so he shared something extremely interesting to me which you're totally turned to me around yet some more where he said that will somehow most hens understand that we're taking their eggs. And he said this one particular hand when I go in there to grab the eggs that she had laid. She spreads out her wings and she does not want me to take the eggs and I have to fight with her Literally, you know she thinks that these eggs are going to hatch but they're not going to hatch but she doesn't. I'm like yeah, but she doesn't know the difference between the two. He's like no she doesn't but this hen like would spread out her wings and try to block him from coming in or leaving with her eggs. And that made me decide that okay, I do not want to eat anymore because you're eating something that someone a being is not willing to give you. So you know with a plan it's completely different. You grow a plant you the plant bears the fruit and you take the food and you eat the food or the you eat the vegetable which is the fruit of the plant, but with in the case of a hand that does not want to give up her eggs or in the case of a pig who does not want to die or cow who does not want to die. that food is not really food.
Yeah, those are that's part of their body or part of their
you know, their offsprings bodies. I mean, these are really interesting. And there's so many things about animals and people, we were really in a process of changing our values about animals. And like, a long time ago, they had animals where they would eat parts of the animal and then then the other parts they then they the animal would later they would eat another part of the animal. So this was a practice done a couple thousand years ago, and now we don't do that anymore. So I think that
was
Yeah, it's it's, um, it's something I read about actually, reading is just incredible. They would be parts of the cow and in also, in some parts of Africa today, even they do like the drain the blood of the cow and they they make all kinds of things with it, the cows stays alive, but they do so they're having Part of the animal while the animal is still living, it's, it's a very, very unusual for us to conceptualize that, because that's not our tradition. But I think that over time, some of the things that we thought of is humane have changed. And so now
I'm thinking in the future people who look back at us will say, Whoa, they ate all these parts of animals and, and it will no longer be the case someday. Yes, I totally believe that. I believe that. You know, we are embarking upon a future which is a bright future and amazing as where
people
are going to or they already are accepting eating vegetables and foods in the same capacity that a lot of the people eat meat today, and kids, I know kids that are You know, turning around, and they're making the connection between between things and between food and animals and they are choosing, I have friends and their kids have told them like, Look, I'm not going to eat any meat. Because, you know, animals are my friends. They're not, they're not some Yeah, seriously. It's, I have I have a friend, you know, my daughter's friend, and the little child is told the parents, you know, the parents are not vegan, not you know, the daughter is vegetarian. And she just got up one day and said, Look, I'm not going to do this and which is great. So, I really think you're correct in saying that, you know, there will be a time when we will look back and say, oh, wow, really, humans ate meat. That just doesn't make any sense. So and I think it's gonna be a lot sooner than anyone thinks. I mean, vegan market is growing. And like major major companies are taking part and jumping onto the bandwagon of Okay, you know, I don't know how greatly I agree with that part but you know that is happening because you know, that's a whole nother topic and a whole nother question and what they're doing and stuff like that but you know, as you know that I'm a major advocate of eating local eating, you know, farm to table go finding out you know, where the nearest farmers market is and eating organic. And since, you know, since I've made that complete shift, um, you know, it's interesting, we were just away for the weekend to Central California. And it's amazing that when you do eat organic all the time, and then you eat local and stuff like that, and then when you when you go away and you may not get that organic meal, every single meal that you're eating. It's interesting how quickly your body realizes that Wait a minute, this is not what I eat. Right? And, you know, it's I was having this conversation with my family yesterday that, you know, when people eat just regular food, conventional food, and then they eat organic meal. It's like it's no big deal. They're like, Oh, I don't feel the difference, because many people question like, Oh, do you really think organic food is really organic? in the markets and stuff like that? People question that. And I'm like, of course it is. Because otherwise they wouldn't be able to say that it is you can't just say something is organic when it's not. It goes through, you know, lots of certification rigorous, it's a rigorous process. But when you have been eating organic and when you have been, you know, a vegan eating organic food, local food, and then when you don't get that, then you realize, Okay, wait a minute, no, what I have been eating is organic, and what I have been eating is different than what I'm eating right now.
Yeah, so your body knows the difference. Yes.
Yes, exactly. And you know, I think,
I think also in correct me if I'm wrong, that we are dealing with all these conversations of like, oh, you're not going to get enough protein if you don't eat meat. And that's like a myth. It's a myth that has been programmed into literally everyone from the meat market and the dairy market where they want you to eat that stuff, because that's their business. And if you don't, now, their business is not flourishing. So I think there's a lot of information out there regarding that in its extreme, I think it's extremely exciting times.
Oh, definitely, really is and actually, one of the programs that in defense of animals started in the past couple years is to help promote that transition to a plant based life. style. It's called actually carnivores anonymous. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, he was a speaker for us. We have speakers who come to share their knowledge and wisdom with our groups. And the idea is that carnivores anonymous really looks at eating meat and dairy as addictions that we want to recover from. And so this carnivores anonymous provides this 12 step support for people who are interested in adopting a plant based lifestyle. And they have in person meetings. We also have a new online meeting that we started. So you can check that out at carnivores anonymous on Facebook, but also dot o RG.
Yeah. And that's also the program that I've been referring some of my people to some of the people that I help you know that I have a four week program where I take people on to it. We call it like the four week Crash Course to vegan You know, the first it takes about four weeks to build a habit and I take people through, you know, giving them information, shopping lists, recipes, and all kinds of, you know, different mentoring help and on the phone help to get them, you know, on the track of eating plant based foods, and then carnivores anonymous is definitely you know, that's something that I've been promoting and telling people about to doing and after the fact, you know, to have this that support system, because so many people come up to me, and they tell me, oh, I went vegan, right. This has happened to me at least two dozen times where somebody would come up to me, and they'd be like, Oh, I went vegan, and it's awesome. I love it. My body loves it, and you know, and then a month later, they would come back to me, the same person comes back to me and they tell me Look, it's so hard. I can't find anything to eat. So I decided that I'm just going to eat fish instead of going vegan, cold turkey and then I'm going to come back around again. Now that happens because they don't have support. They don't have they didn't, you know, do it the right way where they didn't get the proper help. Yes, you know, they're right. There is no support out there. every restaurant you go to they're not even in Los Angeles. People ask me, what's the best vegan restaurant I can go to and, and I tell them there is no hundred percent vegan, high nutrition restaurant in Los Angeles. It's, it's incredible to me, but you know, to have that support to have somebody you know, help you understand how you can not be hungry or how you can manage your meals and you know, things like that is extremely important. And then having that community like carnivores anonymous, to have that community where, you know, if you do the you're stressed out or like, if you do feel, hey, you know, I don't have any support or I don't know what to eat, that there's a whole community there that you can always get some kind of help from everyone, or at least someone. So I'm super excited about carnivores anonymous and I love the program. I love
wonderful Well, it's out there for everyone and it's a great network of people if whether they're very curious or
curious, I love it.
They could be new to veganism or vegetarianism, our even somebody who just wants to find out more about it. Yes, those people who have been being in for a long time can also benefit to from being a mentor to others and or a sponsor to other people. So
yeah, well, thank you so much. It's been a it's been a joy having you. And the conversations been amazing, and we should definitely do it again.
Yeah, sure. Well, thank you. So match. This is really an honor to participate. And I want to just encourage anyone who's curious about our programs, we have this animal activist APPRECIATION MONTH going on. And we've got all kinds of programs including carnivores anonymous. So if you're curious, you can go to Ida USA dot o RG forward slash activist month, and then you'll see all of our programs for the month of February but thank you so much. This is a treat to be be on your show this month and I look forward to reconnecting with you and to just staying in touch with you about your program. It sounds wonderful.
Thank you so much, Lisa. Have a wonderful evening. Oh, thank you. You too. Thank you.
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